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Topik: Orang Islam pun berhak pilih agama lain


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Oleh Orang Islam pun berhak pilih agama lain

mujahadatunnafsi
WARGA SETIA
Menyertai: 12.11.2003
Ahli No: 5068
Posting: 745
Dari: Kelantan

Kelantan   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 15-08-05 05:18


Petang tadi 9 Rejab 1426 / 14 Ogos 2005 kira-kira jam 6.20 petang, NTV7, rancangan Edisi Siasat Chinese version memaparkan Ajaran Sesat Ayah Pin.

Dalam pada itu, seorang wartawan cina bertanyakan pandangan seorang ahli SISTER IN ISLAM ( sebenarnya sister in sesat ).....mencemarkan islam bila ia diguna pada pertubuhan merosakkan islam ni.....

Nama wanita melayu ahli SIS ni ialah Masjaliza Hamzah...setelah ditanya pandangan mengenai Ayah Pin, dia menjawab

!!! QUOTE !!!

Orang Islam juga berhak beragama lain ( berhak untuk memilih agama lain ). Ayah pin ada hak untuk memilih kepercayaannya sendiri, dia tidak mengancam orang ramai, dia tidak berbahaya, Kenapa perlu dirobohkan kediamannya. Artikel 11 Perlembagaan Persekutuan ( Perlembagaan Kafir Thagut ) membenarkan orang Islam untuk menukar agama....


Demi Allah, itulah kata-kata yang terkeluar dari mulut ahli Sister in ...... ini. Kalau mengikut hukum, dia sudah terkeluar dari Islam kerana menyamakan islam dengan agama lain dalam keadaan dia adalah seorang melayu islam, dia menggangap seolah-olah semua agama adalah sama dan seolah-olah Hindu dan Buddha itu juga agama yang benar....

Mungkin dia tak sedar apa yang dia cakapkan.....maksud saya jahil dan tidak tahu perkataan yang dicakapkan itu menggugurkan syahadahnya....

Seperkara lagi, APA KEJADAHNYA edisi siasat cina ni nak mengulas isu umat islam yang sesat seperti ayah pin ni.....cukup orang islam yang settle sudah lah....SIBUK APA HAL, yang menjadi masalah bila mereka mengulas isu ayah pin, mereka akan cuba mentafsirkan sendiri agama islam ini....Ya Allah, agamaku dihina lagi...

Cuba bayangkan sahabat sekalian, ucapan ahli Sis itu..bila dia menyebut orang islam pun boleh tukar agama.....dan yang menonton itu adalah adik-adik kita yang baru nak kenal islam, orang2 islam yang jahil....tidakkah kata-kata itu boleh merosakkan aqidah mereka bila mereka juga merasakan islam sama dengan agama-agama lain....

Yang jelas, kata-kata ahli Sis itu tidak mengancam keselamatan negara dan tidak perlulah ditahan di bawah ISA. Walaupun sebenarnya ia mengancam aqidah umat....dia selamat di negara islam hadhari ni....sebab tidak ada akta yang menghalangnya untuk berkata demikian, walaupun Al-Quran dan Hadith ada aktanya tapi tiada nilaiannya di mahkamah persekutuan dan mahkamah sivil

Wallahua'lam

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guest
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blank   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 15-08-05 05:40


I hope they have a special place in hades for close-minded people like you.

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aieyda
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australia   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 15-08-05 06:16


!!! QUOTE !!!

Yang jelas, kata-kata ahli Sis itu tidak mengancam keselamatan negara dan tidak perlulah ditahan di bawah ISA. Walaupun sebenarnya ia mengancam aqidah umat....dia selamat di negara islam hadhari ni....sebab tidak ada akta yang menghalangnya untuk berkata demikian, walaupun Al-Quran dan Hadith ada aktanya tapi tiada nilaiannya di mahkamah persekutuan dan mahkamah sivil


memang tak mengancam keselamatan negara tapi pada agama ISLAM itu sendiri,cuba kita tengok sekeliling kita ramai muslim yang telah murtad :-(


-----------------
-biar orang mengatakan kebaikan kita bukan mengutuk kejahatan yang kita lakukan -


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SHAMR
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Dari: Dari ALLAH kita datang, kepadaNya kita kembali...

Kelantan   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 15-08-05 06:57


Pada 15-08-05 05:40 , guest posting:

!!! QUOTE !!!

I hope they have a special place in hades for close-minded people like you.


meaning? :-?

Anyway, memang benar tiada paksaan dalam Islam tapi tu untuk orang bukan Islam saja. Mereka tidak dipaksa atau diancam untuk memeluk Islam. Tetapi orang Islam TIDAK boleh sewenang-wenangnya murtad sebab itu menghina Islam. Yela dah jumpa agama yang terbaik yang dah di'approve'kan oleh Allah dalam surah Al-Maidah ayat 3, buat apa nak keluar lagi? Menzalimi diri sendiri namanya tu. :-|


-----------------
"Jangan gugur sebelum syahid!"


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guest
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blank   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 15-08-05 07:27


You must understand what belief means...

Belief is what you perceive to be true. If a person believes that Allah S.W.T is the one true god, then that is his belief. If person believes that Jesus is the saviour of man kind, then that is his belief. The things is, the beliefs of an individual is ultimately decided by the individual himself.

Want to know what that means? It means that if a person 'murtads' from Islam, he no longer believes anything that we all hold true in Islam. It means that he no longer sees Allah as his God, he no longer accepts the Prophet Muhamad as is Prophet, and he no longer follows the 5 pillars of Islam. In short, he has lost faith in Islam and no longer wants to be any aprt of it. That is his belief.

It doesn't matter if there are outside forces trying to halt his 'murtad'. It doesn't matter if there is a law prohibiting a person from 'murtad'. If a person sets his mind to walk away from the path set by Allah, he is as good as done. No law in the world can hold him back from making the decision that only he can make himself. Sure he can just pretend to be a Muslim and walk around greeting people with 'assalamulaikum', but if he doesn't have anymore faith in Islam, then why does it matter?

There are many reasons why most scholars perceive religion as an individual issue. One of the reasons is whatever it is that a person believes in, whether right or wrong, can only be decided by himself. The only thing that we can do to help these people is help them to see the light again by using compassion, not force. I wish that most ulamas that are making the headlines these days could unerstand this.
[ Telah diedit oleh: guest pada 15-08-05 07:34 ]


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n_farhanah
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jordan   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 15-08-05 07:30


Assalamualaikum

frankly speaking, tak rasa terkejut pun jika masjaliza keluarkan kenyataan begitu. sebelum ni SIS dalam kenyataan mereka memang membela ayah pin & pengikut-pengikutnya. dalam The Sun (29 July 2005) :

------------------------------

Spokesperson Masjaliza Hamzah said the Sky Kingdom saga showed how religious authorities used state and federal resources to punish Ayah Pin and his followers without due consideration for their constitutional and religious rights.

“The government must take a brave and principled stand to respect freedom of religion.

“The principle of religious freedom is clearly affirmed in the Quran and reflected in Article 11 of the Federal Constitution and Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

“The Quran is explicit and consistent in its recognition of freedom of religion,” she said.

“How can religious authorities and Muslims demand that those wishing to convert to Islam should have all the freedom to do so (while) at the same time deny this freedom to Muslims who wish to leave their faith or belief?”

Ayah Pin and the Sky Kingdom followers grabbed media spotlight in recent weeks following a crackdown by Terengganu authorities on the village several times in an attempt to stamp out alleged deviant practices.

Citing a particular verse, Masjaliza said messages in the Quran should not be translated into detention and forced rehabilitation for those who believe differently.

“Freedom of religion must recognise the right to practice one’s religion, however unorthodox the beliefs may be,” said Masjaliza, reiterating SIS’ stand against any effort to criminalise people on the basis of their faith.

“This right includes the freedom to change one’s religion or belief, either alone or in community with others, in public or private.

“Followers of unorthodox beliefs should be treated with respect and dignity.”

------------------------------

seperti kelompok sekularis dan liberalis lain, masjaliza menafsirkan AQ al-Baqarah: 256 dengan tafsirannya sendiri tanpa merujuk mana-mana kitab tafsir atau tafsiran ulama' yang muktabar.

wAllahu a'lam.
[ Telah diedit oleh: n_farhanah pada 15-08-05 07:30 ]


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n_farhanah
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jordan   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 15-08-05 16:09


Pada 15-08-05 07:27 , guest posting:

!!! QUOTE !!!

It doesn't matter if there are outside forces trying to halt his 'murtad'. It doesn't matter if there is a law prohibiting a person from 'murtad'.


bahkan! Allah tidak menjadikan sesuatu atau menurunkan suatu hukum dengan sia-sia, tanpa tujuan tertentu,

"Apakah kamu mengira bahawa Kami menciptakan kamu secara main-main (saja).." (AQ 23: 115)

hikmah dihalang seorang Muslim daripada murtad adalah untuk memelihara kemurnian Islam. juga kerana ia mengancam keperibadian dan survival masyarakat Islam

!!! QUOTE !!!

There are many reasons why most scholars perceive religion as an individual issue.


agama bukan masalah individu, tetapi merupakan masalah ummah. sebab itulah kepentingan agama wajib diutamakan daripada jiwa, keturunan, akal dan harta. kerana itu jugalah dihalalkan darah mereka yang memerangi Islam dan hukuman yang berat dikenakan kepada golongan yang murtad. it is indeed a well-known fact to ALL Muslim scholars

!!! QUOTE !!!

One of the reasons is whatever it is that a person believes in, whether right or wrong, can only be decided by himself.


benar setiap individu berhak memilih agama yang ingin dianutinya. inilah yang dimaksudkan dengan AQ 2:256,

"Tiada paksaan dalam agama (Islam), sesungguhnya telah jelas jalan yang benar daripada jalan yang sesat.."

akan tetapi setelah menjadi seorang Muslim, tiada lagi pilihan baginya untuk keluar dari Islam dan memilih agama lain. ini tidak termasuk dalam apa yang dimaksudkan dengan ayat AQ 2:256. malah terdapat peruntukan khas dalam perundangan Islam bagi golongan yang murtad : dibunuh (Ijma') jika enggan bertaubat SETELAH diberi tempoh untuk berbuat demikian (Jumhur)

!!! QUOTE !!!

The only thing that we can do to help these people is help them to see the light again by using compassion, not force.


sememangnya inilah konsep yang ditekankan dalam Islam. berda'wah secara hikmah kepada non-Muslim, dan memberikan tempoh kepada golongan yang murtad agar bertaubat yang mana dalam tempoh itu mereka akan didatangi oleh ulama' untuk membimbing mereka

ada pun tafsiran dan kenyataan masjaliza telah jelas menyeleweng dari AQ, Sunnah dan Ijma', maka tak perlulah dipertahankan lagi dengan apa jua hujah. wAllahu a'lam
[ Telah diedit oleh: n_farhanah pada 15-08-05 16:32 ]


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zulman

Menyertai: 22.12.2004
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Perak   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 15-08-05 17:52


Assalamualaikum
sahabat semua

'you must understand what belief means...

Belief is what you perceive to be true. If a person believes that Allah S.W.T is the one true god, then that is his belief. If person believes that Jesus is the saviour of man kind, then that is his belief. The things is, the beliefs of an individual is ultimately decided by the individual himself.'


Ya betul , tapi didalam Islam bila anda mempercayai Allah , beriktikad dan tunduk kepada Allah , ini bermakna Allah adalah tuhan anda, memepercayai Allah adalah pencipta alam, Tuan kepada anda , dan bila sudah mengiktiraf Allah sebagai Tuhan dan Tuan , adakah anda layak meninggalkan arahan dan ajaran Tuan anda begitu sahaja, cuba saudara guest fikirkan sejenak , adakah wajar seorang hamba mengingkari ajaran Pencipta nya (The Creator) yang telah dipercayai, ini bermakna manusia itu telah berlaku kurang ajar dan cuba melawan dan melebihi tuhan , didalam Islam, kepercayaan tidak boleh di tukar seumpama menukar baju, contoh hari ini Islam , esok cristian , lusa budhha minggu depan Ayah Pin....apa makna ini, bolehkah secara logiknya manusia buat begitu , saya pasti tidak boleh. (nanti semua tuhan marah kat dia) hehe



'Want to know what that means? It means that if a person 'murtads' from Islam, he no longer believes anything that we all hold true in Islam. It means that he no longer sees Allah as his God, he no longer accepts the Prophet Muhamad as is Prophet, and he no longer follows the 5 pillars of Islam. In short, he has lost faith in Islam and no longer wants to be any aprt of it. That is his belief.'

kebebasan manusia ada batasnya, itu sebab agama Islam ada didunia ini, ia diturunkan oleh Allah untuk menjadi panduan kehidupan penganutnya dan seluruh manusia amnya, dan di dalam Islam ,masakan Allah tidak murka jika ada orang yang cuba melawannya , demi menjaga maruah dan kesuciannya Islam amat berhati-hati dalam isu kemurtadan ini, di dalam agama lain saya tak pasti sama ada tuhan mereka tidak sakit hati jika dah pengikut mereka menukar agama sewenang-wenangnya umpama menukar baju, dan di manakah maruah agama mereka itu. Dan jika orang yang tidak memahami Islam janganlah cuba untuk mencampuri urusan agama Islam ini. Dan ya, orang Non muslim tidak di paksa untuk memasuki Islam tetapi orang Islam adalah DiHARAMKAN untuk menukar agamanya, sebab apabila sudah memasuki Islam kebebasan seseorang itu mistilah berpandukan ajaran Tuhannya , dan perlu di ingat Tuhannya bukanlah manusia atau seseorang yang boleh di ingkari....DIA adalah Maha Pencipta, Maha Tuan dan adalah kurang ajar jika seorang hamba manusia itu cuba lari dan menginkari Tuannya..Dan kebanyakan kes murtad ini bukan lah di sebabkan oleh untuk mencari kebenaran , tetapi disebabkan kesombongan dan ingkar dengan kebenaran itu, contoh Ayah Pin, adakah benar dia mencari kebenaran , jika di tanya kepada paderi christian pun sudah pasti dia kata ayah Pin itu sesat, yang dilihat ialah mereka yang murtad hanya mengikut nafsu dan tipu daya syaitan(evil).







'It doesn't matter if there are outside forces trying to halt his 'murtad'. It doesn't matter if there is a law prohibiting a person from 'murtad'. If a person sets his mind to walk away from the path set by Allah, he is as good as done. No law in the world can hold him back from making the decision that only he can make himself. Sure he can just pretend to be a Muslim and walk around greeting people with 'assalamulaikum', but if he doesn't have anymore faith in Islam, then why does it matter?'

Didalam Islam murtad adalah satu jenayah, .Islam adalah agama yang Syumul, dan saya pasti didalam agama lain tiada undang undang seperti ini, hatta adab-adab bersuci pun tiada diterangkan di dalam agama lain, apa lagi undang-undang negara, hanya Islam sahaja yang ada,. dan saya pasti saudara guest tidak akan memahaminya, jadi saudara guest perlu bertanya apakah hikmah di haramkan murtad di dalam Islam , kalau tak tahu tanya pada yang tahu , tetapi pertanyaan kena ikhlas untuk mencari ilmu bukan untuk menghentam Islam itu, Islam mengharamkan murtad adalah untuk menjaga maruah Islam itu sendiri, maruah pengikutnya (supaya tidak di tuduh munafik, tiada pendirian , tidak setia, atau pun penipu), serta untuk menjaga masyarakat Islam (supaya dilihat sebagai satu masyarakat yang jujur dan setia terhadap agama), ya memang seseorang itu boleh merahsiakan kemurtadannya itu tapi selagi dia berada dalam masyarakat muslim , dia boleh diperbaiki, selagi dia tidak mengistiharkan kemurtadannya.Kemungkinan seseorang yang murtad masih berdi , baik kepada semua orang, tetapi dia telah membuat jenayah kepada Tuhan , Kepada Tuannya, Kepada Penciptanya…contohnya secara mudah bayangkan kalau seseorang itu mengianati bos nya atau seseorang hamba itu khianat dengan Tuannya , bayangkan saudara guest, apa yang akan terjadi kalau saudara guest mengkhianati bos saudara di tempat kerja …..adakah bos saudara tersenyum lebar…saya pasti tidak

'There are many reasons why most scholars perceive religion as an individual issue. One of the reasons is whatever it is that a person believes in, whether right or wrong, can only be decided by himself. The only thing that we can do to help these people is help them to see the light again by using compassion, not force. I wish that most ulamas that are making the headlines these days could unerstand this.'


Siapa ulama dan tokoh yang mengatakan murtad adalah persolan individu, cuba beri bukti mr guest, janganlah bermain kata tanpa fakta, didalam Islam ulama sepakat menyatakan bahawa murtad merupakan jenayah besar di dalam Islam, sebab ia jenayah kepada Tuhan , bukan antara manusia. dan kalau dalam agama lain murtad di katakan persoalan individu,terbuktilah bahwa mereka itu, tiada wibawa , maksudnya agama mereka tak boleh mengawal pengikutnya jadi secara jelasnya buat apa nak ikut ajaran tu, manusia secara benarnya mahu mencari agama yang boleh mengawal mereka bukan mereka mengawal agama, murtad ni satu percubaan manusia untuk mengawal agama mengikut kehendak mereka, dan harapan saya Mr guest secara jujur tidak mengambil ulasan dari pada orang yang tidak mempunyai kelayankan untuk mentafsir Islam itu tanpa hujahan yang kukuh. Seperti yang saya katakan awal tadi, kebebasan menentukan betul dan salah memang di tentukan oleh individu tetapi berpandukan panduan Tuhan dan didalam Islam pastinya Allah Yang Maha Pencipta The One and Only, Dia bukan manusia yang mempunyai anak atau di peranakkan.




-----------------
Permudahkan dan jangan menyukarkan,gembirakan dan jangan menyusahkan, bersepakat dan jangan berpecah belah.


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mujahadatunnafsi
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Menyertai: 12.11.2003
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Kelantan   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 15-08-05 18:38


mentafsir Al-Quran dengan akal...

Saya teringat suatu hadith Nabi SAW yang mengatakan barangsiapa mentafsir ayat-ayat Al-Quran dengan akal dan nafsu maka NERAKA lah tempat baginya.....

SIS sesuka hati mentafsir Al-Quran mengikut kehendak mereka sendiri.....

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jundullah81
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Menyertai: 16.05.2003
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saudiarabia   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 15-08-05 18:54


Assalamualaikum...

!!! QUOTE !!!

It doesn't matter if there are outside forces trying to halt his 'murtad'. It doesn't matter if there is a law prohibiting a person from 'murtad'. If a person sets his mind to walk away from the path set by Allah, he is as good as done. No law in the world can hold him back from making the decision that only he can make himself. Sure he can just pretend to be a Muslim and walk around greeting people with 'assalamulaikum', but if he doesn't have anymore faith in Islam, then why does it matter?


One simple question: What would you say, as a parent if tomorrow, your child doesn't want you to be his/her parents anymore? They want to switch parents. Today they accept you as thier parent, tomorrow they dump you like s**t (sorry for the word).

It will be very rude and unacceptable to do that, don't you think? If doing that to your PARENTS who gave you birth, took care of you whatever you do to them, cared for you etc is very very rude and unacceptable, then doing that to our CREATOR is more than bad!

Allh is the one who creates you, who takes care of you, who feeds you, who gave you everything, yet when you found somewhat 'better' religion in your mind, you just 'dump' Allah????? Is it fair?

It will not affect ALLAH by all means, but it will affect you! You are the one who lose, not ALLAH.

This is just a very low-level comparison and thoughts I'm giving. For someone like THEM, I think it won't be wise enough to give such a hadith or Quran quotes as they won't care, as it may not satisfy their thoughts and so-called beliefs....

Hope this answers.....


Islam is only ONE and will always be ONE....

Wallahu a'lam

Ila Mardhatillah

Assalamualaikum...


-----------------
HAPPY Moments----- PRAISE ALLAH
DIFFICULT Moments- SEEK ALLAH
QUIET Moments------ WORSHIP ALLAH
PAINFUL Moments--- TRUST ALLAH
EVERY Moment------- THANK ALLAH


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Amrizal
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NegeriSembilan   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 15-08-05 19:01


Bila dah bercakap berdasarkan pemikiran itulah jadinya.. tak bersandarkan nas2 Allah... masya Allah... betapa jahil dan bodohnya sister in islam ni punya pemikiran... buat malu orang Islam saja... baik tukar nama... ya Allah...

Murtad tanpa sedar... masya Allah!!!

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mujahadatunnafsi
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Kelantan   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 15-08-05 20:49


Alhamdulillah sebab saudar/i Guest berada di sini, kecelaruan pemikiran anda sekurang-kurangnya dapat dijawab di sini.

Cuma saya nak maklumkan, aqidah @ syahadah @ atau secara kasarnya kita boleh jadi kafir terbatal islam 3 perkara.

Melalui iktiqad dalam hati

Melalui perbuatan ( menyembah tokong mace ayoh pin itu )

Dan juga perkataan, sama ada yang dilafazkan di bibir atau penulisan² yang meniti di atas perkara-perkara yang boleh merosakkan aqidah.

Berhati-hatilah di atas setiap penulisan kita, jangan sampai kita mempertikaikan hukum Allah dan membuat andaian yang bukan-bukan tanpa merujuk Al-Quran dan Hadith

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sanada_yukimura
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japan  


posticon Posting pada: 15-08-05 20:58


Nauzubillah...

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mukasyaf
WARGA SETIA
Menyertai: 28.06.2005
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Posting: 1367
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malaysia   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 16-08-05 01:40


keh keh keh...yang antum semua layan si guest tu buat apa.

ps: keh keh keh. :-D
[ Telah diedit oleh: mukasyaf pada 16-08-05 01:41 ]


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jejaka_sabar
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Dari: sG pETANi,Kedah

Kedah  


posticon Posting pada: 16-08-05 06:08


Itulah Islam Liberal yang tak bercirikan Islam yang dibawa nabi Muhammad SwT

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budakbesar
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Menyertai: 09.05.2005
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Posting: 98
Dari: labuan

Sabah  


posticon Posting pada: 16-08-05 07:40


Pada 15-08-05 05:40 , guest posting:

!!! QUOTE !!!

I hope they have a special place in hades for close-minded people like you.


aku tak paham ayat ni ditujukan kepada sapa? rasanya kepada sender untuk topic ni merujuk kepada perkataan 'close-minded'. jan melampau lah guest. kalau kau berani sangat, guna perkataan neraka atau the devils playground untuk ganti perkataan hades tu. suka hati dia nak doakan kejahanaman orang... ish....

p/s sahabat semua any comment?

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guest
Warga 3 Bintang
Menyertai: 14.07.2005
Ahli No: 17289
Posting: 72

blank   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 16-08-05 15:31


Pada 15-08-05 18:54 , jundullah81 posting:

!!! QUOTE !!!

Assalamualaikum...

!!! QUOTE !!!

It doesn't matter if there are outside forces trying to halt his 'murtad'. It doesn't matter if there is a law prohibiting a person from 'murtad'. If a person sets his mind to walk away from the path set by Allah, he is as good as done. No law in the world can hold him back from making the decision that only he can make himself. Sure he can just pretend to be a Muslim and walk around greeting people with 'assalamulaikum', but if he doesn't have anymore faith in Islam, then why does it matter?


One simple question: What would you say, as a parent if tomorrow, your child doesn't want you to be his/her parents anymore? They want to switch parents. Today they accept you as thier parent, tomorrow they dump you like s**t (sorry for the word).

It will be very rude and unacceptable to do that, don't you think? If doing that to your PARENTS who gave you birth, took care of you whatever you do to them, cared for you etc is very very rude and unacceptable, then doing that to our CREATOR is more than bad!

Allh is the one who creates you, who takes care of you, who feeds you, who gave you everything, yet when you found somewhat 'better' religion in your mind, you just 'dump' Allah????? Is it fair?

It will not affect ALLAH by all means, but it will affect you! You are the one who lose, not ALLAH.

This is just a very low-level comparison and thoughts I'm giving. For someone like THEM, I think it won't be wise enough to give such a hadith or Quran quotes as they won't care, as it may not satisfy their thoughts and so-called beliefs....

Hope this answers.....


Islam is only ONE and will always be ONE....

Wallahu a'lam

Ila Mardhatillah

Assalamualaikum...



To answer your question, if my child ever leaves me, then I would question the reason why he would do such a thing. If I have been a bad parent and neglected him, then I would understand why he would have the heart do so, albeit the path that he had chosen wouldn't be the best of choices.

The same goes with Muslims who are on the verge of murtad. Maybe there is something that he doesn't quite understand about Islam, maybe he has unanswered questions that the ulamas and ustazs failed to answer, but no matter what the reasons, based on what he experienced Islam with his 5 senses, he decided that Islam is a false religion. That is what he believed.

Yes, of course Allah is the one who creates you, who takes care of you, who feeds you, who gave you everything, but bare in mind that a person who has murtad no longer believes in this. Although the path he has chosen is wrong, to him he no longer sees Islam as a true religion like you and me. Instead of seeing things in your perspective, try seeing things in his perspective.

Maybe something drove him to the point that he abandons Islam. To show you how things work, let me give an example: In Islam, cannibalism is a sin and I'm sure most of us have no problems staying away from that. But picture this; a man crashed his plan on a deserted islan, with no food and water, and all he has is a bunch of dead corpses from the crash. He's been starving for weeks now, and the only way he can survive is to become a cannibal. Now tell me, can you honestly say you understand how he feels and if the same circumstances would be given to you, it would not in any way sway your judgment?

The same is is true with disbelievers. Maybe it's parental neglected. Maybe it's misinformation. Maybe it's pressure. It can be anything, all of them trials given by Allah S.W.T to test their faith, which they have obviously failed. But can you be so sure that you won't fail too if the same tests were to be given to you? What, do you think they've gone all out to abandon the religion that they've had ever since they were born for nothing?

Most muslims today never question any thing about their religion. There are also those who question heavilly, went out to search for the truth, and found all their answers in Islam, and their faith on Allah S.W.T grew more then ever before...

Unfortunately, some of them never did get their answers.
[ Telah diedit oleh: guest pada 16-08-05 15:36 ]


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farhanin
Warga 4 Bintang
Menyertai: 26.08.2004
Ahli No: 10742
Posting: 326
Dari: di BumI yang Aman PerMAi..

Johor  


posticon Posting pada: 16-08-05 17:31


jangan mudah meletakkan sesuatu hukuman tanpa ada ilmu..

isu murtad bukan isu yang kecil dan bukan isu yang remeh

ia melibatkan aqidah

kalau umat Islam dah tak percaya kerhadiran A:;ah sebagai tuhan yang layak disembah.. adakah perlu kita melepaskannya dan berdiam diri

sedangkan dalam quran dan hadith ada menyebut

orang yang murtad perlu dibunuh!!!

awasi setiap kata-kata kerna kata-kata boleh mempengaruhi seseorang..lebnih2 lagi yang berkaitan dengan aqidah

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lubaina
WARGA SETIA
Menyertai: 15.02.2005
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Posting: 1007
Dari: AntARa LanGit DaN bUMi...entahlah....

Selangor   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 16-08-05 17:58


masyaAllah...
manusia akhir zaman...
isu murtad dipandang remeh...
:-o :-o :-o

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guest
Warga 3 Bintang
Menyertai: 14.07.2005
Ahli No: 17289
Posting: 72

blank   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 16-08-05 18:21


Pada 16-08-05 17:31 , farhanin posting:

!!! QUOTE !!!

jangan mudah meletakkan sesuatu hukuman tanpa ada ilmu..

isu murtad bukan isu yang kecil dan bukan isu yang remeh

ia melibatkan aqidah

kalau umat Islam dah tak percaya kerhadiran A:;ah sebagai tuhan yang layak disembah.. adakah perlu kita melepaskannya dan berdiam diri

sedangkan dalam quran dan hadith ada menyebut

orang yang murtad perlu dibunuh!!!

awasi setiap kata-kata kerna kata-kata boleh mempengaruhi seseorang..lebnih2 lagi yang berkaitan dengan aqidah


http://www.e-bacaan.com/album950721b2.htm

READ THIS DUMBASS.

Tell me now farhani, exactly which one of us doesn't have 'ilmu' now?

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zulman

Menyertai: 22.12.2004
Ahli No: 13229
Posting: 2786
Dari: dunia ini hanya sementara

Perak   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 16-08-05 18:44


Pada 16-08-05 18:21 , guest posting:

!!! QUOTE !!!

Pada 16-08-05 17:31 , farhanin posting:

!!! QUOTE !!!

jangan mudah meletakkan sesuatu hukuman tanpa ada ilmu..

isu murtad bukan isu yang kecil dan bukan isu yang remeh

ia melibatkan aqidah

kalau umat Islam dah tak percaya kerhadiran A:;ah sebagai tuhan yang layak disembah.. adakah perlu kita melepaskannya dan berdiam diri

sedangkan dalam quran dan hadith ada menyebut

orang yang murtad perlu dibunuh!!!

awasi setiap kata-kata kerna kata-kata boleh mempengaruhi seseorang..lebnih2 lagi yang berkaitan dengan aqidah


http://www.e-bacaan.com/album950721b2.htm

READ THIS DUMBASS.

Tell me now farhani, exactly which one of us doesn't have 'ilmu' now?



minta maaf saudara guest ..
moga anda di rahmati Allah

Kategori : Akidah    
Tajuk :
Gerakan Anti-hadis
Isu :
“A. BAHAWA BUKU YANG BERTAJUK –
(a) “Hadis Satu Penilaian Semula” dan “Hadis Jawapan Kepada Pengkritik” yang kedua-duanya ditulis oleh Kassim Ahmad;
(b) “Pendedahan Kebenaran Adalah Dari Tuhanmu – Hadith di dalam al-Quran” yang ditulis oleh Idris Abdul Rahman;
(c) “Bacaan” yang ditulis oleh Othman Ali;
(d) “The Computer Speaks – God’s Message To The World” yang ditulis oleh dari. Rashad Khalifa,

adalah mengandungi ajaran-ajaran dan fahaman-fahaman yang
bertentangan dengan aqidah, syariah dan akhlak Islam serta
mengeliru dan menyesatkan masyarakat Islam. Ajaran-ajaran
dan fahaman-fahaman yang terkandung dalam buku-buku
tersebut, antara lain, menolak hadith sahih (iaitu hadith
yang disahkan bersumber daripada Rasulullah S.A.W.) sebagai
sumber aqidah dan perundangan Islam, menghina kedudukan
Rasulullah S.A.W. dan menghina al-Quran dengan
mempertikaikan kesahihan serta memesongkan pengertian
sebenar ayat-ayat al-Quran tersebut.Adalah mengandungi
ajaran-ajaran dan fahaman-fahaman yang bertentangan dengan
aqidah dan syariah Islamiah serta menglirukan dan boleh
menyesatkan masyarakat Islam, oleh itu adalah diharamkan.

B. BAHAWA orang dan kumpulan orang yang berpegang
kepada ajaran-ajaran dan fahaman-fahaman yang terkandung
dalam buku-buku yang disebut terdahulu adalah suatu
kumpulan orang yang sesat dan bertentangan dengan aqidah,
syariah dan akhlak Islamiah.

Fatwa :


Pada menjalankan kuasa yang diberi oleh Seksyen 34 (2) Enakmen Pentadbiran Agama Islam 1992, Sahibus Samahah Mufti Negeri Perak Darul Ridzuan membuat fatwa yang telah diputuskan oleh Jawatankuasa Fatwa “Majlis Agama Islam dan ‘Adat Melayu Perak” Darul Ridzuan pada 2 Jamadilawal 1416 bersamaan 27 September 1995, dan atas titah perintah Duli Yang Maha Mulia Sultan mengisytiharkan fatwa tersebut seperti berikut

C. OLEH YANG DEMIKIAN –

(1) mana-mana orang atau kumpulan yang berpegang kepada
ajaran-ajaran dan fahaman-fahaman yang terkandung dalam
buku “Hadis Satu Penilaian Semula”, “Hadis Jawapan Kepada
Pengkritik ”, “Pendedahan Kebenaran Adalah Dari Tuhanmu –
Hadith di Dalam al-Quran”, “Bacaan” atau “The Computer
Speaks: God’s Message To The World”; adalah murtad;

(2) mana-mana orang Islam adalah dilarang -
(a) mengajar, mempelajari, mengamalkan
berpegang kepada atau menyebarkan ajaran-
ajaran dan fahaman-fahaman yang terkandung dalam
buku “Hadis Satu Penilaian Semula”, “Hadis Jawapan
Kepada Pengkritik”, “Pendedahan Kebenaran Adalah
Dari Tuhanmu – Hadith Di Dalam al-Quran”, “Bacaan”
atau “The Computer Speaks: God’s Message To The
World”;

(b) mencetak, menerbitkan, memiliki,
menyiarkan, menyebarkan atau mengedarkan
buku “Hadis Satu Penilaian Semula,” “Hadis Jawapan
Kepada Pengkritik”, “Pendedahan Kebenaran Adalah
Dari Tuhanmu – Hadith Di Dalam al-Quran”, “Bacaan”
atau “The Computer Speaks: God’s Message To The
World”; atau mana-mana bahagiannya, termasuk –
(i) apa-apa bentuk, versi atau
variasinya;
(ii) apa-apa terjemahannya dalam apa-apa
bahasa;
(iii) apa-apa bahan publisiti yang
bertujuan memberikan publisiti
kepada mana-mana buku itu,pada atau
atas apa-apa bahan, sama ada bahan
cetak atau elektronik atau
selainnya atau melalui apa-apa
media; atau
(c) menjadi anggota atau memimpin mana-mana
Golongan Antihadith atau membantu dalam menghidupkan
atau mengembangkan kumpulan sedemikian.”




Rujukan Pewartaan : No:139 Jil.49


Tarikh Pewartaan :
15 Feb 1996






Baca : 1418

Oleh : Jawatankuasa Syariah Negeri Perak


http://ii.islam.gov.my/e-fatwa/mufti/fatwa_warta_view.asp?keyID=257



Diharap saudara guest rujukilah dengan ulama yang muktabar, dan ikhlas dengan ilmunya, InsyaAllah dan moga Allah merahmati saudara dan kita semua.


-----------------
Permudahkan dan jangan menyukarkan,gembirakan dan jangan menyusahkan, bersepakat dan jangan berpecah belah.
[ Telah diedit oleh: zulman pada 16-08-05 19:32 ]


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n_farhanah
Warga 4 Bintang
Menyertai: 07.07.2004
Ahli No: 9856
Posting: 332
Dari: -

jordan   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 16-08-05 19:21


Assalamualaikum

alhamdulillah, akhirnya jelas pada kita siapa guest ini yang sebenarnya. memang benar seperti yang ana jangkakan, setelah mengikuti kebanyakan posting guest sebelum ini. (you sound really familiar to me, probably we've met in other discussion forum. or probably it's someone else, who sounds just like you)

hujah bahawa hukum bunuh terhadap mereka yang murtad, rejam sampai mati kepada penzina muhsan & sebat kepada peminum arak tidak terdapat dalam al-Quran turut digunakan oleh SIS untuk menolak draf hudud yang dirangka oleh krj PAS di Kelantan dan Terengganu sebelum ini.

sehingga ke hari ini pun tak pernah lagi ana lihat SIS mengeluarkan hujah dengan menyandarkan dalil mereka pada mana-mana Hadith (sumber ambilan hukum mereka HANYA al-Quran). tak hairanlah masjaliza keluarkan kenyataan sedemikian & guest pula beria-ia mempertahankan tindakan mereka yang murtad.

wAllahu a'lam.
[ Telah diedit oleh: n_farhanah pada 16-08-05 19:22 ]


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n_farhanah
Warga 4 Bintang
Menyertai: 07.07.2004
Ahli No: 9856
Posting: 332
Dari: -

jordan   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 16-08-05 20:44


Pada 16-08-05 15:31 , guest posting:

!!! QUOTE !!!

To answer your question, if my child ever leaves me, then I would question the reason why he would do such a thing. If I have been a bad parent and neglected him, then I would understand why he would have the heart do so, albeit the path that he had chosen wouldn't be the best of choices.

The same goes with Muslims who are on the verge of murtad. Maybe there is something that he doesn't quite understand about Islam, maybe he has unanswered questions that the ulamas and ustazs failed to answer, but no matter what the reasons, based on what he experienced Islam with his 5 senses, he decided that Islam is a false religion. That is what he believed.

Yes, of course Allah is the one who creates you, who takes care of you, who feeds you, who gave you everything, but bare in mind that a person who has murtad no longer believes in this. Although the path he has chosen is wrong, to him he no longer sees Islam as a true religion like you and me. Instead of seeing things in your perspective, try seeing things in his perspective.

Maybe something drove him to the point that he abandons Islam. To show you how things work, let me give an example: In Islam, cannibalism is a sin and I'm sure most of us have no problems staying away from that. But picture this; a man crashed his plan on a deserted islan, with no food and water, and all he has is a bunch of dead corpses from the crash. He's been starving for weeks now, and the only way he can survive is to become a cannibal. Now tell me, can you honestly say you understand how he feels and if the same circumstances would be given to you, it would not in any way sway your judgment?

The same is is true with disbelievers. Maybe it's parental neglected. Maybe it's misinformation. Maybe it's pressure. It can be anything, all of them trials given by Allah S.W.T to test their faith, which they have obviously failed. But can you be so sure that you won't fail too if the same tests were to be given to you? What, do you think they've gone all out to abandon the religion that they've had ever since they were born for nothing?

Most muslims today never question any thing about their religion. There are also those who question heavilly, went out to search for the truth, and found all their answers in Islam, and their faith on Allah S.W.T grew more then ever before...

Unfortunately, some of them never did get their answers.


what's your point?

here's the analogy: you're m'sian citizen, have m'sian citizenship and bound by m'sian laws. under malaysia's anti-drug laws, death penalty is mandatory for trafficking in a number of named drugs

however you broke the law, were found guilty and being sentenced to death. do you think that m'sian govt. will allow you to change your citizenship (to escape the punishment) and let you walk out just like that, after breaking the law? definitely not! or even if you're not m'sian citizen, do you think you could escape the death penalty after breaking the law, during your stay in m'sia? i don't think so. can you sue m'sian govt. for that? of course, NO! you have no right to question the authorities for whatever crime you've commited

the same concept applies to Islam. once you become a Muslim, it's your obligation to obey ALL the laws & rules which had been set for you, whether you like it or not. if you break the law, you'll be punished. doesn't matter how you try to justify your wrongdoing, if it contradicts the Islamic laws, you'll get neither excuse nor right to question His law. even if it seems very unfair to human's eyes.

wAllahu a'lam.
[ Telah diedit oleh: n_farhanah pada 16-08-05 21:01 ]


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mukasyaf
WARGA SETIA
Menyertai: 28.06.2005
Ahli No: 16905
Posting: 1367
Dari: bumi Allah

malaysia   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 16-08-05 21:02


keh keh keh... ni dah masuk kali kedua ana gelakkan antum semua. Kenapa masih nak layan si guest tu. dia lebih suka rujuk e-bacaan daripada al-quran. dia lebih suka berfikiran liberal daripada islamik. dia lebih sukakan ayah pin daripada Rasullullah.

kalau debat pun buang masa saja.

ps: keh keh keh. gelak lagi. :-D

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mujahadatunnafsi
WARGA SETIA
Menyertai: 12.11.2003
Ahli No: 5068
Posting: 745
Dari: Kelantan

Kelantan   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 17-08-05 00:22


Bagi saya akhi mukasyaf, pengunjung ukhwah ini terdiri dari pelbagai golongan dan tahap pemikiran yang berbeza.

Dan kalau tidak dijawab, dibimbangi jawapan tafsiran agama yang berasaskan akal semata-mata oleh Guest akan diterima oleh mereka yang kurang arif. Selain itu, ia juga akan membetulkan kekeliruan yang meresap ke dalam kepala si GUEST ni.

Ana minta akhi Jundullah 81 dan juga ukhti Farhanah yang agak mahir english ni dapat menjawab setiap kekeliruan SESAT yang ditimbulkan oleh GUEST.

Kenyataan masjaliza hamzah adalah kenyataan yang meniti di atas batas kekufuran.

REDHA DENGAN KEKUFURAN, SUATU KEKUFURAN

Wallahua'lam

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Nurhidayah83
Warga 1 Bintang
Menyertai: 15.03.2005
Ahli No: 15147
Posting: 29

Sabah   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 17-08-05 00:49


jangan ambil remeh perkara ni...... kalau dada penuh ilmu..... kalau hati bersih dan suci....... isu ini takkan timbul...

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guest
Warga 3 Bintang
Menyertai: 14.07.2005
Ahli No: 17289
Posting: 72

blank   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 17-08-05 00:51


Pada 16-08-05 20:44 , n_farhanah posting:

!!! QUOTE !!!

Pada 16-08-05 15:31 , guest posting:

what's your point?

here's the analogy: you're m'sian citizen, have m'sian citizenship and bound by m'sian laws. under malaysia's anti-drug laws, death penalty is mandatory for trafficking in a number of named drugs

however you broke the law, were found guilty and being sentenced to death. do you think that m'sian govt. will allow you to change your citizenship (to escape the punishment) and let you walk out just like that, after breaking the law? definitely not! or even if you're not m'sian citizen, do you think you could escape the death penalty after breaking the law, during your stay in m'sia? i don't think so. can you sue m'sian govt. for that? of course, NO! you have no right to question the authorities for whatever crime you've commited

the same concept applies to Islam. once you become a Muslim, it's your obligation to obey ALL the laws & rules which had been set for you, whether you like it or not. if you break the law, you'll be punished. doesn't matter how you try to justify your wrongdoing, if it contradicts the Islamic laws, you'll get neither excuse nor right to question His law. even if it seems very unfair to human's eyes.

wAllahu a'lam.


Of course a person who murtads from Islam will be punished. If a person dies in murtad, the doors of repentance will be closed from him, and he will forever burn in the hellfires along with shaytan for all eternity. But it is only the right of Allah S.W.T to pass judgment and punish the disbeliever, not you and me. All we can do is persuade these disbelievers to come back to the light. Islam is a religion of compassion, not compulsion. We as Muslims cannot harass or force anyone into our religion. Allah S.W.T is all merciful and all forgiving, and gives anyone a chance of repentance as long as they live or as long as their doors of repentance are still open. The disbelivers will be punished by Allah when their time comes, but it is not our right to do so.
[ Telah diedit oleh: guest pada 17-08-05 01:20 ]


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guest
Warga 3 Bintang
Menyertai: 14.07.2005
Ahli No: 17289
Posting: 72

blank   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 17-08-05 01:03


And as for heeding the words of the 'ulama muktabar' of Perak, I make it a personal goal in life to not follow anyone blindly just because he wears a kopiah and has a goatee. One of the reasons is this:

http://eforums.healthdev.orang/read/messages?id=5253

(edit: the link doesn't seem to work if you click on it. try copy pasting the url on a new borwer window. anyway it's about the mufti of perak suggesting that all HIV patients should be isolated in an island)

No offense.
[ Telah diedit oleh: guest pada 17-08-05 01:27 ]


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mukasyaf
WARGA SETIA
Menyertai: 28.06.2005
Ahli No: 16905
Posting: 1367
Dari: bumi Allah

malaysia   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 17-08-05 01:27


Pada 17-08-05 00:22 , mujahadatunnafsi posting:

!!! QUOTE !!!

Bagi saya akhi mukasyaf, pengunjung ukhwah ini terdiri dari pelbagai golongan dan tahap pemikiran yang berbeza.

Dan kalau tidak dijawab, dibimbangi jawapan tafsiran agama yang berasaskan akal semata-mata oleh Guest akan diterima oleh mereka yang kurang arif. Selain itu, ia juga akan membetulkan kekeliruan yang meresap ke dalam kepala si GUEST ni.

Ana minta akhi Jundullah 81 dan juga ukhti Farhanah yang agak mahir english ni dapat menjawab setiap kekeliruan SESAT yang ditimbulkan oleh GUEST.

Kenyataan masjaliza hamzah adalah kenyataan yang meniti di atas batas kekufuran.

REDHA DENGAN KEKUFURAN, SUATU KEKUFURAN

Wallahua'lam
ana setuju dengan kalam anta.
bagaimanapun, perbincangan dengan orang fasik tidak akan membawa kemana2. ana pernah melayan manusia bernama guest ni, namun ia membawa kepada hasil yang sia2.

apapun, ana menyokong tindakan antum semua yang ingin sentiasa menegakkan kebenaran. AllahuAkbar!.

ps: teruskan jihad fi sabillillah.

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jundullah81
WARGA SETIA
Menyertai: 16.05.2003
Ahli No: 331
Posting: 473
Dari: Bumi Allah Semuanya....

saudiarabia   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 17-08-05 04:53


Assalamualaikum....

To Guest, we need to know and realize that in our life and in this whole world, there are things that we can just talk about and there are things that need special knowledge to enable us to talk.

For example, talking about building a rocket surely not our level (unless Kedai Kopi talkings which comes out with nothing). We need special and thorough knowledge before we could even give any opinions. Like old chinese sayings, "Don't open your mouth unless you have something in your brain".

So does when we talk about Islam. We can't just only give opinions without proper knowledge and understandings. And for a 'low-level' people like us, it'll be much2 better to hear and quote only from the people whom we are really sure on the source of knowledge the gained. Not from those 'chicken', who only post or paste thier thoughts in the web, without giving any concrete fatcs and source of the knowledge (we don't even know who they are!).

We respect the muftis and ulamas not for their clothings (although we need to respect as they are following sunnah), not for their beards (I would rather use this word than your word!) but we respect thir knowledge. We respect their understandings in Islam. Compared to us who only learn Islam by partial, they gave their life all out to learn Islam!

It is better for you to respect these kind of people, rather than respecting those who only write but dare not to reveal their own identity!

!!! QUOTE !!!

But it is only the right of Allah S.W.T to pass judgment and punish the disbeliever, not you and me. All we can do is persuade these disbelievers to come back to the light.


It is true that Allah has the sole right to punish anybody who did wrong but didn't Allah gave us the guidelines? Allah gave us the Quran and sent us Rasulullah for guiding us, which is true and which is wrong. We only follow what Quran and Sunnah said.

We are not punishing. We are quoting what Quran and Sunnah have delivered! If we're not supposed to punish, then what's the purpose of Allah setting up Islamic Laws? What's the purpose of having the Hudud, Qisas and Ta'zir? In these laws, we're not the one who punish, we did as what Allah has told us to do!

We were given the guidelines, a very thorough one indeed. The acceptance and implementations will mirror on how far we do believe and accept this guidelines. We can talk, give a speech or even shout to say that we are the real believers or Islam, but our doings reflect them all....

Islam is Only ONE and will always be ONE.

Wallahu a'lam

Ila Mardhatillah

Assalamualaikum....


-----------------
HAPPY Moments----- PRAISE ALLAH
DIFFICULT Moments- SEEK ALLAH
QUIET Moments------ WORSHIP ALLAH
PAINFUL Moments--- TRUST ALLAH
EVERY Moment------- THANK ALLAH


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n_farhanah
Warga 4 Bintang
Menyertai: 07.07.2004
Ahli No: 9856
Posting: 332
Dari: -

jordan   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 17-08-05 09:04


guest, you have to distinguish between unbelievers (kafir) and apostates (murtad). if you don't possess the knowledge, you should ask the scholars and make an effort to learn

"And before thee also the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration: if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message." (QS 16:43)

there's a special chapter discussing about apostasy and the dalil(s) from Hadith regarding this matter is (are) very clear. in fact, it was practiced during the time of the Sahabah (ridhwanullah 'alaihim)

those who claim the opposite are liars. they lie using the name of Rasulullah (bear in mind that anything came from Rasulullah also came from Allah)

"But say not - for any false thing that your tongues may put forth – 'This is lawful, and this is forbidden,' so as to ascribe false things to Allah. For those who ascribe false things to Allah, will never prosper. " (QS 16:116)

and if this is their i'tiqad, they have nullified their syahadah. (refer: 10 Things Which Nullify One's Islam)

wal'iyadzubillah
[ Telah diedit oleh: n_farhanah pada 17-08-05 09:05 ]


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mawa
WARGA SETIA
Menyertai: 29.08.2004
Ahli No: 10790
Posting: 872
Dari: Atas Angin

Kedah   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 17-08-05 16:06


Let us have peace, let us have life, Let us escape the cruel night. Let us have time, let the sun shine, Let us beware the deadly sign. The day is coming, it's near.....
Inferno's coming, can we survive????. Save us from fate, save us from hate,
Save ourselves before it's too late.Come to our need, hear our plea. Save ourselves before the earth bleeds. The day is dawning, the time is near,
Someones calling, can we...... survive!

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mujahadatunnafsi
WARGA SETIA
Menyertai: 12.11.2003
Ahli No: 5068
Posting: 745
Dari: Kelantan

Kelantan   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 17-08-05 17:48


!!! QUOTE !!!

I make it a personal goal in life to not follow anyone blindly just because he wears a kopiah and has a goatee


Astargfirullahal 'Azim

Goatee

Yang jelas siapa yang mengumpamakan janggut sunnah Rasulullah SAW itu seumpama janggut kambing, maka dia telah mempersendakan sunnah Rasulullah SAW.

Guest, if u really a real muslim, BERTAUBATLAH. TARIK BALIK ISTILAH 'GOATEE' .

Kalau ia berniat untuk mempersendakan sunnah Baginda Kekasih Allah, maka dari segi hukumnnya, boleh terbatal syahadah...boleh jadi kafir

KAMU SEMAKIN MELAMPAU !!!!!

Wallahua'lam
[ Telah diedit oleh: mujahadatunnafsi pada 17-08-05 17:50 ]


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mukasyaf
WARGA SETIA
Menyertai: 28.06.2005
Ahli No: 16905
Posting: 1367
Dari: bumi Allah

malaysia   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 17-08-05 22:07


tumpang lalu.

ps: just like i expected.

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guest
Warga 3 Bintang
Menyertai: 14.07.2005
Ahli No: 17289
Posting: 72

blank   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 17-08-05 22:19


Pada 17-08-05 17:48 , mujahadatunnafsi posting:

!!! QUOTE !!!

!!! QUOTE !!!

I make it a personal goal in life to not follow anyone blindly just because he wears a kopiah and has a goatee


Astargfirullahal 'Azim

Goatee

Yang jelas siapa yang mengumpamakan janggut sunnah Rasulullah SAW itu seumpama janggut kambing, maka dia telah mempersendakan sunnah Rasulullah SAW.

Guest, if u really a real muslim, BERTAUBATLAH. TARIK BALIK ISTILAH 'GOATEE' .

Kalau ia berniat untuk mempersendakan sunnah Baginda Kekasih Allah, maka dari segi hukumnnya, boleh terbatal syahadah...boleh jadi kafir

KAMU SEMAKIN MELAMPAU !!!!!

Wallahua'lam


goatee
A    noun
    1     goatee
        a small chin beard trimmed to a point; named for its resemblance to a goat's beard
    
That is what 'goatee' means. It is not an insult word. It is actually A SPECIFIC TYPE OF BEARD YOU DUMBASS.

Owh, and no, it's not named that way to insult Islam or Jews or Chirstian or whatever. It was named that way because EVERYBODY IN THE FREAKIN' UNIVERSE CALLS IT THAT WAY.

If someone doesn't even know what a goatee means then I'm sure they have far bigger problems to worry about.
[ Telah diedit oleh: guest pada 17-08-05 22:24 ]


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mukasyaf
WARGA SETIA
Menyertai: 28.06.2005
Ahli No: 16905
Posting: 1367
Dari: bumi Allah

malaysia   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 17-08-05 22:24


hehe.

ps: rileks guest.

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mujahadatunnafsi
WARGA SETIA
Menyertai: 12.11.2003
Ahli No: 5068
Posting: 745
Dari: Kelantan

Kelantan   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 18-08-05 19:39


!!! QUOTE !!!

a small chin beard trimmed to a point; named for its resemblance to a goat's beard


Memanglah ia tidak insult word bagi ORANG KAFIR dan individu YANG KEPENINGAN DAN KEKELIRUAN macam anda, saudara/i GUEST. Bagi orang kafir, istilah goatee yang merujuk kepada janggut, perkataan itu disebut merujuk kepada janggut kambing.

Bagi yang rasa dirinya muslim, mengaku beriman kepada Nabi dan mengasihi Nabi, istilah GOATEE HARAM digunakan kerana seolah-olah menggambarkan janggut itu seumpama janggut kambing ( goatee ). IT IS A INSULT WORD TO RASULULLAH SAW............

Sahabat-sahabat lain tak rasa apa-apa ke bila janggut Nabi diistilahkan kepada GOATEE. Ia suatu penghinaan pada Nabi seterusnya penghinaan pada islam itu sendiri.

!!! QUOTE !!!

it was named that way because EVERYBODY IN THE FREAKIN' UNIVERSE CALLS IT THAT WAY


We are muslim, we have our own identity, tak perlulah nak menggunakan istilah yang digunakan non muslim untuk menggelarkan janggut orang alim (sunnah Nabi SAW) sebagai GOATEE...

Kamu nak tergolong dalam pemikiran orang kafir atau pemikiran orang islam yang berlandaskan Al-Quran Sunnah.....

Kalau GUEST masih tak tahu lagi, mulai hari ini STOP USING GOATEE kepada orang2 Islam yang mempunyai janggut. Kalau anda tahu ia menghina islam, tapi masih menggunakannya lagi............well, u know the answer.

Wallahua'lam

p/s : Seusai makan, Nabi SAW akan menjilat sisa-sisa makanan yang terlekat dihujung jarinya, barangsiapa yang mengumpamakan tindakan Nabi SAW itu sebagai jijik dan kotor, maka gugur syahadahnya ( kafir ).
[ Telah diedit oleh: mujahadatunnafsi pada 18-08-05 19:51 ]


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guest
Warga 3 Bintang
Menyertai: 14.07.2005
Ahli No: 17289
Posting: 72

blank   avatar


posticon Posting pada: 19-08-05 00:25


Wow, mujahadmufti or whatever your name is, you wrote all that much about a beard just to defend a non-existent insult? Gosh. I don't even want to know whose deranged fatwa you've been following this time.

This is the kind of muslim we really need today; people who would find insult in the most insignifant of things. You know, the kind of muslims who cried out foul just because they heard a stupid hoax about how Pikachu is actually a Jewish phrase for 'I am Jew', or the kind of people who actually believed that Coke intentionally made their Coca Cola insignia to spell lah Muhammad lah Mecca backwards. The kind of people who actually thinks 'goatee' is an insulting word to Islam just because the Prophet sports one, even though people have been sporting goatees long before the Prophet was even born.

Seriously, everyone uses the word goatee dude. I don't know about you, but all the English speaking people that I know of,including the muslim ones, uses the word. So I think maybe you're just being paranoid. Go see a therapist. I don't want to hear in the 10 o'clock news about someone bombing the American embassy in Malaysia just because the American ambassador used the word 'goatee' to describe his grandpa's beard.

Darnit, for crying out loud, this thread was about apostacy, not a type of beard.

But anyway, I'll just take heed on your advice. From now I won't use the word goatee.Instead, I will use some other word to describe a beard which is cut and trimmed resembling a goat. Oh wait a minute, there is no other word in the English dictionary to describe such a beard! So I guess I'm stuck with the word goatee after all!

Get a life.
[ Telah diedit oleh: guest pada 19-08-05 00:46 ]


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